Chat America’s Contract with Black Americans

[Hornet]

Ok, I didn’t want derail the Derek Chauvin thread. This is a monologue from Trever Noah after the George Floyd killing. He talks other issues but starting around the 7 minute mark he gets into the George Floyd killing and then riots and looting, etc. I feel he sums it up perfectly when he discusses “society” where “society is a contract that all Americans agree to terms of behaviour and rules and what is acceptable and what isn’t (laws). He postulates that riots and looting are a result of “society” breaking its contract with Black Americans where “society” is not living up to its side of the agreement of inclusivity and equal rights with Black Americans so the riots and looting are then a direct result of that broken contract. Now those outside that group, White Americans, will argue that they have equal rights but Black Americans would disagree. And since the contract dispute is between “society” and Black Americans, then White Americans have a different perception and may be very vocal about it but ultimately are just a 3rd party in the dispute that should have no more or less say in the matter than Asian Americans, Brown Americans, Native Americans, Latin Americans, etc. that are all equal parties to that contract.

 

[PinkPussy]

The solution for African Americans is simple: in order to get ahead in life, do and live as the East Asians in America do.
Surefire way for Blacks to succeed.

 

[stripfan]

Blacks are the special needs kids in the American classroom.

 

[sy barite]

Thanks for posting this. I watched the whole thing because though I believe Noah is a thoughtful and sincere guy. He also gets things absolutely wrong on a pretty consistent basis. He gets facts wrong and therefore derives wrong conclusions. I understand why he believes what he believes, but I maintain that any objective review of facts that are readily available to anyone who cares look for them show quite conclusively that he is wrong in the picture he draws of modern America.

Let's begin with something he gets right. Society most certainly is a type of contract and because of racism, black people in America have historically not been able to participate fully in society and have suffered due to systemic injustices. I don't know any reasonable person who would disagree with that assessment of American history. But to hear Noah and his ilk, you would think there had been no progress since 1619 when the first black slaves were brought to the continent. Since 1968 black people have been equal under the law. From the civil rights act on, it has been illegal to discriminate based on race. That is, racism was taken out of the system of laws which set the rules for how we live with each other. I don't for a second suggest that racism was eliminated. I do say however that with the passing of the Civil Righst Act a last major step was taken in fulfilling the promise made by Jefferson to all future Americans, that all men are created equal and entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

But Noah (representing the majority view), looks around and says, "wait, blacks are still poorer, still being disproportionately killed by police, living with crime, lagging in education, therefore systemic racism still exists". This is where he goes wrong. The facts do not support the conclusion that disparate outcomes in society are due to racism. If that were true, you would not see almost every immigrant group-including from some black societies-outperform multi-generaltional black Americans and in many instances out performing whites.

If you want to begin to understand why black men are killed by police at 2.5 times the rate of white men, don't be lazy and just chalk it up to "systemic racism". Instead, ask why police are coming into contact with black men at so much higher rates than they do with other groups. Look into why those interactions are happening. I've shared these stats before, but really consider them seriously. Police kill about 1000 people per year in the U.S. Of that number, about half are white, 25% are black and the other 25% are latino and mixed. Of the number of blacks killed by police--about 250--less than 10% are unarmed. Weigh that against the millions and millions of interactions police have with black people each year and then explain to me how we live in a society where blacks are justified in believing that it's open season on them, that they are at risk of police violence every time the go out doors. Again, i don't say that there aren't horror stories and bad cops, but anecdotes are not science. If you go by the stats, the problem that Noah is almost moved to tears on does not exist.

 

[sy barite]

The solution for African Americans is simple: in order to get ahead in life, do and live as the East Asians in America do.
Surefire way for Blacks to succeed.

100% agree (and so much more succinct than my post)

 

[jicama]

Is he going to characterize those nutjobs storming the Capitol as the voice of the unheard too?

There are serious problems with race in the U.S, Canada and globally, but I reject the notion that it's THE defining individual trait within society and therefore responsible for most of society's ills. Yes, black people (men, specifically) are disproportionately abused, arrested, killed, etc. by police than other groups. Is it happening on some epidemic scale? No, absolutely not and the data shows that. We're talking 200-300 (roughly 10% unarmed) annually in a country of over 300 million. That's less than the number of people dying in mass shootings, less than 1/4 of child homicides and certainly less than the 40,000 gun deaths every year.

Of course we can be upset about 2 different things at once, but the centrality of race is any conversation is just deafening.

 

[stripfan]

The next Chauvin.

Ohio BLM About to Riot Over "Racist" Cop Saving a Black Woman's Life

article - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/04/breaking-bodycam-footage-shows-15-year-old-makiyah-bryant-attempting-stab-person-shot-dead-officer-graphic-video/ Odysee Channel: https://odysee.com/@SaltyCracker:a Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/SaltyCracker Website...

www.bitchute.com

 

[Boston Man Chowder]

Equity and equality are not the same thing. If you have been afforded the same rights and opportunities under the law but do not achieve the same outcome as someone else, you cannot just lazily blame it on systemic racism.

Some idiots will say you cannot make it in America if you're not white. When East Asians and East Indians obliterate that thoughtless argument by dominating the top tier of the tax bracket, blacks will then change the argument to the system solely being built against them and no one else. So what is it? If some people of colour from other countries came to the U.S. without a firm grasp of the English language but were able to thrive economically, then what is stopping an ethnic group of multi-generational Americans from doing the same?

 

[sy barite]

Equity and equality are not the same thing. If you have been afforded the same rights and opportunities under the law but do not achieve the same outcome as someone else, you cannot just lazily blame it on systemic racism.

Some idiots will say you cannot make it in America if you're not white. When East Asians and East Indians obliterate that thoughtless argument by dominating the top tier of the tax bracket, blacks will then change the argument to the system solely being built against them and no one else. So what is it? If some people of colour from other countries came to the U.S. without a firm grasp of the English language but were able to thrive economically, then what is stopping an ethnic group of multi-generational Americans from doing the same?

The data is even more compelling than that. Blacks emigrating from Africa to the U.S. are actually quite successful in America. For example, the level of home ownership and higher education among immigrants from Africa is significantly higher than for immigrants from the Caribbean and native born blacks. If racism is the culprit, we need to understand the why and how of it, but in the current climate it is impossible to have an honest discussion. Strangely, people take issue with immediately being labelled as "racist" is they bring any of these facts up.

People choose the "feely" arguments all the time, because the implications behind the stats are uncomfortable. Basically, choices matter and as a group, native born blacks in America do not on average make very good ones. I know that last sentence will be taken as evidence of me being a racist, but that just proves my point. I'm merely citing a stat. People base their "knowledge" on this issue far more on things like the long silent painful pauses in speeches like Noah's and almost not at all on actual facts. Ironically, this attitude winds up hurting black people.

 

[Boston Man Chowder]

The data is even more compelling than that. Blacks emigrating from Africa to the U.S. are actually quite successful in America. For example, the level of home ownership and higher education among immigrants from Africa is significantly higher than for immigrants from the Caribbean and native born blacks. If racism is the culprit, we need to understand the why and how of it, but in the current climate it is impossible to have an honest discussion. Strangely, people take issue with immediately being labelled as "racist" is they bring any of these facts up.

People choose the "feely" arguments all the time, because the implications behind the stats are uncomfortable. Basically, choices matter and as a group, native born blacks in America do not on average make very good ones. I know that last sentence will be taken as evidence of me being a racist, but that just proves my point. I'm merely citing a stat. People base their "knowledge" on this issue far more on things like the long silent painful pauses in speeches like Noah's and almost not at all on actual facts. Ironically, this attitude winds up hurting black people.

Nigerians, just to name one group, are known to be very hardworking, entrepreneurial people. Just like East Indians, a lot of their young ones come here on student visas and go on to dominate the job market or start businesses. As you said, it's mostly Carribean immigrants or American-born blacks (a lot of whom are also of Carribean descent) who seem to represent a lot of the negative aspects of a particular subculture. The sad thing is, it's even evident here in the GTA. Think of all the names of the most undesirable neighbourhoods in Toronto alone that people throw around and unsympathetically laugh at. And then think of who inhabits those spaces. It's very sad and poignant but it's true. It's only amplified more in the U.S.

 

[Magicmon]

The solution for African Americans is simple: in order to get ahead in life, do and live as the East Asians in America do.
Surefire way for Blacks to succeed.

what kind of nonsense is this lol

 

[Realitychk88]

Nigerians, just to name one group, are known to be very hardworking, entrepreneurial people. Just like East Indians, a lot of their young ones come here on student visas and go on to dominate the job market or start businesses. As you said, it's mostly Carribean immigrants or American-born blacks (a lot of whom are also of Carribean descent) who seem to represent a lot of the negative aspects of a particular subculture. The sad thing is, it's even evident here in the GTA. Think of all the names of the most undesirable neighbourhoods in Toronto alone that people throw around and unsympathetically laugh at. And then think of who inhabits those spaces. It's very sad and poignant but it's true. It's only amplified more in the U.S.

Agreed. Immigrants where they have the nuclear family - mother, father, kids that are offspring of both parents - and have maintained strong ties to their heritage, like South American, African or European descent have fared pretty well. They are hard-working, religious, and well educated. We live in an area with a large, ecclectic mix of nationalities. The gang-banging, drug dealing, father five kids with four different women types have not.

 

[Deleted member 64273]

No matter what the social contract is, what the stats are, nothing excuses the looting. Looting is just opportunistic thieving. Rioting comes when mass hysteria (or anger) reaches a boiling point, and in those emotionally charged situations, can be contagious.

Personally, I feel that media is just as much to blame as "the system". Stop making movies and TV shows that continually portrays black people as gangsters and pimps. Stop idiotic rappers from making it alright to perpetuate the gangster lifestyle and throwing around the "n" word in every breath. Stop portraying black women as all being stuck up big bottomed gangster girlfriends looking for their next trick or blow.

It's like how media (movies and TV) keep portraying sex workers as cheap drug addicted trailer trash. You want to change public opinion? Start with changing what and how we get our entertainment. Radio, TV and now the Internet are very powerful tools and go a long way to shape how society evolves.

 

[Magicmon]

No matter what the social contract is, what the stats are, nothing excuses the looting. Looting is just opportunistic thieving. Rioting comes when mass hysteria (or anger) reaches a boiling point, and in those emotionally charged situations, can be contagious.

Personally, I feel that media is just as much to blame as "the system". Stop making movies and TV shows that continually portrays black people as gangsters and pimps. Stop idiotic rappers from making it alright to perpetuate the gangster lifestyle and throwing around the "n" word in every breath. Stop portraying black women as all being stuck up big bottomed gangster girlfriends looking for their next trick or blow.

It's like how media (movies and TV) keep portraying sex workers as cheap drug addicted trailer trash. You want to change public opinion? Start with changing what and how we get our entertainment. Radio, TV and now the Internet are very powerful tools and go a long way to shape how society evolves.

Yes, stop the dumb racial stereotypes in the media.

I want to add to what you said because a lot of people especially Canadians don’t understand is. A lot of those rappers are not from the “hood”. They come from middle class or above families. It’s all an act. The rapper lil John for example. For those who might not know him. He’s the guy who became popular for saying “whattttt” and “ookkkk”. He went to a private out of state college which costs 50k a year. He found out he could make millions putting on an act. Because that’s what record companies want.

 

[Boston Man Chowder]

Agreed. Immigrants where they have the nuclear family - mother, father, kids that are offspring of both parents - and have maintained strong ties to their heritage, like South American, African or European descent have fared pretty well. They are hard-working, religious, and well educated. We live in an area with a large, ecclectic mix of nationalities. The gang-banging, drug dealing, father five kids with four different women types have not.

A nuclear family is not a guarantee but it sure gives you a better shot at life. Having a father sure beats looking at all the wrong places for male role models. Your mother cannot teach you how to be a man. Nothing beats good old family values. Nothing beats having 2 parents who will encourage you to put a premium on education instead of banking your entire future on a career as a rapper or baller.

 

[stripfan]

So-called black culture has to be rebuilt from the ground up otherwise it will always be dysfunctional and victim-oriented. Unfortunately, no one really knows how to do this.

 

[Kawailuvr]

Equity and equality are not the same thing. If you have been afforded the same rights and opportunities under the law but do not achieve the same outcome as someone else, you cannot just lazily blame it on systemic racism.

Some idiots will say you cannot make it in America if you're not white. When East Asians and East Indians obliterate that thoughtless argument by dominating the top tier of the tax bracket, blacks will then change the argument to the system solely being built against them and no one else. So what is it? If some people of colour from other countries came to the U.S. without a firm grasp of the English language but were able to thrive economically, then what is stopping an ethnic group of multi-generational Americans from doing the same?

Well that’s because niggers are lazy pieces of garbage

 

[Kawailuvr]

We should just just let the animals kill each other !

 

[luvthe drake]

No matter what the social contract is, what the stats are, nothing excuses the looting. Looting is just opportunistic thieving. Rioting comes when mass hysteria (or anger) reaches a boiling point, and in those emotionally charged situations, can be contagious.

Personally, I feel that media is just as much to blame as "the system". Stop making movies and TV shows that continually portrays black people as gangsters and pimps. Stop idiotic rappers from making it alright to perpetuate the gangster lifestyle and throwing around the "n" word in every breath. Stop portraying black women as all being stuck up big bottomed gangster girlfriends looking for their next trick or blow.

It's like how media (movies and TV) keep portraying sex workers as cheap drug addicted trailer trash. You want to change public opinion? Start with changing what and how we get our entertainment. Radio, TV and now the Internet are very powerful tools and go a long way to shape how society evolves.

not to mention news media...!